Travel Journal#15.21: Gainesville, New York City, Albany

Diary of a Traveling Sadhaka, Volume 15, No. 21 

By Krishna Kripa Das 

(November 2019, part one) 

Gainesville, New York City, Albany

 (Sent from New York City on November 23, 2019)

Where I Went and What I Did

The first three days of November I spent in Gainesville at a workshop on cosmography with devotees in Bhaktivedanta Institute and from the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium. The first day I was also involved with three harinamas, the last one attended by twenty-five devotees from the Krishna House community. While in the Gaineville area, I attended the Giriraj Festival of Madhava Prabhu at his home in LaCrosse, along with many Krishna House devotees and friends from Alachua. Then I returned to New York City and spent the next nine days chanting with the Yuga Dharma Ashram party in different subway stations and once outside at Times Square. The next three days I stayed with my 95-year-old mother near Albany, helping her with cooking and errands. During this time, I drove to Stuyvesant Falls a couple of times and visited my guru, Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami, twice, and Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu, who lives across the street from him, once.

I share a quote from a lecture by Srila Prabhupada. I share excerpts from many poems in Every Day, Just Write and writing sessions in Free Write Journal, both by Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami. I share notes on lectures by Kavicandra Swami, Niranjana Swami, and Prahladananda Swami. I share notes on classes by Srila Prabhupada disciples Drutakarma and Ramesvara Prabhus as well as conversations with Ravindra Svarupa and Purnaprajna Prabhus. I include some glorification of Govardhan Hill by Madhava Prabhu. I share notes on a lecture by Princeton professor Matthew Desmond on eviction in America, one of Kali-yuga’s anomalies. After the Insights section, I include a lot of interesting points about the Fifth Canto cosmology and exhibit ideas to represent it from the workshop on cosmography attended by devotees involved in Bhaktivedanta Institute (BI) and the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium (TOVP).

Many thanks to Yugala Piriti Devi Dasi of New York for her donation of a wonderfully warm winter coat and well as some cash. Thanks to Mother Nanda of Alachua for her generous donation. Thanks to my mother for letting me use her car to visit Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami and Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu. Thanks to Prishni Devi Dasi for letting me use her car to see, sing for and dance for Radha Shyamasundara in Alachua.

Thanks to Purusartha Prabhu for his awesome photos of Baradraj Prabhu chanting Hare Krishna at Krishna Lunch in Gainesville. Thanks to Ananta Sankirtana Prabhu for his photos and videos of us chanting Hare Krishna at Times Square.

Itinerary

October 1 – December: NYC Yuga Dharma harinamas

December 7: Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami Vyasa-puja in Stuyvesant Falls

December 24: visiting relatives in Albany

January–April 2020: North Florida colleges, mostly Florida State University

Chanting Hare Krishna in Alachua County, Florida

It was great to be chanting Hare Krishna during Krishna Lunch in Gainesville again.

When I arrived, Ananta Vallabhu Prabhu, who had attained spiritual initiation since I had last seen him, was chanting Hare Krishna, and Sandipani Muni Krishna Prabhu of England was playing the drum for him (https://youtu.be/gxtBCK-S62Q):

Later Adikarta Prabhu invited his godbrother, the artist Baradraja Prabhu, a legendary kirtan leader of the 1970s, to lead the last kirtan of the day (https://youtu.be/rXw9Vnv1oJ0):

Here Adikarta Prabhu chants Hare Krishna at Krishna House at the end of the Friday evening program after a lecture by Drutakarma Prabhu (https://youtu.be/atRYqpneiHE):

Usually Krishna House devotees do harinama on Saturday nights, but the week I was there they were attending Madhava Prabhu’s Giriraj Festival on Saturday, thus I encouraged them to do harinama on Friday night instead. I invited as many people to go as I could. Three devotees who are great musicians who often go on harinama gave me different excuses why they could not come, but they all ended up coming out anyway. I was so pleased we had 25 devotees altogether, over twice the usual attendance.

Here Haripriya, the youngest daughter of Yadubara and Visakha Prabhus, chants Hare Krishna across from University of Florida, near the bars and restaurants, on a spontaneous Friday night harinama with the lively Krishna House congregation (https://youtu.be/jvKZ5lbPJvE):

Sandipani Muni Krishna Prabhu of the UK leads Krishna House devotees in chanting Hare Krishna near University of Florida (https://youtu.be/7ltJrMtcg0w):

While Sandipani was leading, some partiers danced (https://youtu.be/Uz3w5zpp4y4):

He also induced some students to chant “Gauranga” (https://youtu.be/1tffYjc2eNQ):

Narayani chants Hare Krishna at Krishna House in a spontaneous kirtan after Guru Puja on Saturday (https://youtu.be/2oQxcwoBJqA):

Baradraja Prabhu chants “Arunodaya Kirtan” and Hare Krishna in Gainesville (https://youtu.be/0mN5dIhIcHc)

For many years Madhava Prabhu, who is originally from Boston, but who lives in LaCrosse, not far from the Alachua temple, has a had a festival honoring Giriraj at his home, near the date of the Govardhan Puja festival. Madhava has worshiped Giriraj in the form of a Govardhan sila for many years with great dedication.

Here Ananta Gauranga Prabhu chants Hare Krishna at Madhava Prabhu’s Giriraj festival at his home in LaCrosse, Florida (https://youtu.be/sIbaOg3U2gg):

Madhava Prabhu chants Hare Krishna (https://youtu.be/70r5j30jnTA):

Ramai Prabhu chants Hare Krishna (https://youtu.be/IwRIsR8J-nY):

Radha chants Hare Krishna (https://youtu.be/At2a6K-lbi4):

Baradraja Prabhu chants Hare Krishna in Gainesville (https://youtu.be/Uw1Bjn3GFtQ):

Chanting Hare Krishna in New York City

While I was in Gainesville at the cosmography workshop, Yuga Dharma Ashram devotees chanted at a new event for us, the NYC Marathon.

The last week of October, when we were chanting at Penn Station subway station, I noticed this ad for the NYC Marathon on the wall.

Remembering the nice experience I had chanting Hare Krishna with Newcastle devotees at the Great North Run in England in September, I encouraged Natabara Gauranga Prabhu to do harinama at the NYC Marathon, which is attended by 52,000 people. He decided that considering our schedule on Sundays, it would be best to chant at the end of the marathon. An advantage to that is you have the many friends and well-wishers of the runners there to congratulate them, and so you can reach many more people. The Yuga Dharma Ashram devotees found it w silaas a great opportunity and many more people heard the holy name and took books than they do outside at Times Square, our usual Sunday spot.

I felt very victorious that weekend that by Krishna’s grace I was able to encourage 25 Krishna House devotees to chant in Gainesville on Friday, and I was able to encourage the Yuga Dharma Ashram devotees to chant at a very successful new venue, the NYC Marathon, on Sunday!

On Monday, Divyangi Devi Dasi chanted Hare Krishna at Penn Station subway station (https://youtu.be/TNDCs16Z-bs):

Tuesday Krishna Prasad Prabhu chanted Hare Krishna in Times Square subway station, a lady played shakers, and Natabara Gauranga Prabhu danced (https://youtu.be/-soqEWClZYo):

Here Kaliya Krishna Prabhu chants Hare Krishna in Times Square subway station, and a man plays shakers and dances with Jason and Mahotsaha Prabhus (https://youtu.be/tQCOKZM3AK0):

Wednesday Prahladananda Swami chanted Hare Krishna in Atlantic Ave. / Barclays Center in Brooklyn (https://youtu.be/Rh9L1B5WZGI):

Each year Prahladananda Swami comes out and chants with the Yuga Dharma Ashram party when he visits New York City. This year he impressed me by leading the chanting for two hours.

That day we were blessed to have two swamis on harinama. Kavicandra Swami also came out with us this day, as he did almost every day for two weeks and distributed books, inspiring us by his example.

Thursday Ananda Prabhu chanted Hare Krishna in Times Square, and a passing devotee danced to the music (https://youtu.be/DUF96aHNo9g):

Here Natabara Gauranga Prabhu chants Hare Krishna in Times Square, and Sati Devi Dasi, visiting from Newburgh, dances (https://youtu.be/7yQxOl8-T3s):

Here Jaya Jagannatha chants Hare Krishna at the Bhakti Center Thursday kirtan (https://youtu.be/43VZD9Pzj5I):

On Friday Murli Krishna Prabhu, who used to chant with Aindra Prabhu in New York in the 1980s, chanted Hare Krishna at Jackson Heights / Roosevelt Avenue subway station (https://youtu.be/9Soae5cuDtY):

While Murli Krishna chanted Hare Krishna, Richard, who met the Hare Krishnas through this Yuga Dharma Ashram harinama party, danced, and a regular passerby played shakers (https://youtu.be/AiM7dqvP5Fk):

Here Kaliya Krishna Prabhu chants Hare Krishna in Jackson Heights, and devotee ladies dance (https://youtu.be/QbIHPj4QAfw):

I gave Srimad-Bhagavatam on Saturday at the Bhakti Center. After class, I did the arati to Srila Prabhupada, and Jahnavi chanted the kirtan. Here she chants Hare Krishna after the arati (https://youtu.be/BGg6uaNba94):

Kaliya Krishna Prabhu chants Hare Krishna and a family of tourists from Chicago, whose children like the music, plays shakers at Times Square subway station (https://youtu.be/Deo_jUqhIhQ):

Prahladananda Swami chants Hare Krishna at 26 Second Avenue, the site of our first ISKCON temple in New York City, and devotees dance (https://youtu.be/7-pbnFxEHm4):

On Sundays at 4:30 p.m. we chant for an hour outside at Times Square.

Natabara Gauranga Prabhu led kirtan in the beginning at our meeting spot in front of the Walgreens.

Then we moved toward Times Square itself.

As we were short of singers and instrumentalists, Natabara encouraged me to sing.

Jason was very enthusiastic to engage the onlookers in dancing.

In this video I led the Yuga Dharma Ashram harinama party in chanting Hare Krishna at Times Square, and onlookers danced with devotees. Thanks to Ananda Sankirtana Prabhu for the photos and video. (https://youtu.be/_W0ap51A_-o):

I also took a little video myself of other dancers (https://youtu.be/tFvWvM45gFk):

My dentist asked if it was hard being a Hare Krishna monk. I said it wasn’t. The hardest part is we have some spiritual knowledge to share that can really benefit people but very few people are interested in it. He smiled and said I should ask the universe or God or whatever you call it to send only favorable people. I did that later that day on harinama in New York City. As soon as I offered that prayer someone came up to the book table in a jolly, positive mood and gave a donation and took a book. In general, the next two days were better than usual.

Ananta Gauranga Prabhu, who was once full time on the Yuga Dharma Ashram party, chants Hare Krishna in Times Square, during a visit to New York City from Krishna House in Gainesville, Florida (https://youtu.be/RIwfWq54WHQ):

Later while Ananta Gauranga Prabhu chanted Hare Krishna, Krishna Prasad Prabhu induced youths to dance with joy (https://youtu.be/HihIazVlsQY):

The last day I was in New York City, the month of Karttika came to an end and with it the blissful experience of encouraging passersby to attain spiritual perfection by offering lamps to Lord Damodara (https://youtu.be/sALOKr5G1pg):

Chanting Hare Krishna in Albany

In Albany I did not do so much chanting of Hare Krishna beyond my sixteen rounds of japa and ten minutes of practicing a Madhava tune on my harmonium each day. 

Everyday I would cook breakfast and lunch and do some driving for my mother. She is a social activist and always stays aware of current events. Thus she watched the impeachment hearings on TV every day. It was striking for me to see that the officials in the U.S. State Department who were testifying appear to have more integrity than the U.S. President himself.

Two of the three days I went to Stuyvesant Falls, just half an hour away, and I had lunch with my guru, Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami. I was one of the devotees who would read transcendental literature to him while and after he ate, in this case Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi-lila, Chapters 8 and 9. Afterward I would help clean the dishes and honor the maha-prasadam. One day I visited Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu, who lives just across the road, which is also a treat. I have known him since I lived in Philadelphia in the mid 1980s. He is working on a book about Lord Caitanya’s “Siksastaka,” when his health permits.

Insights

Srila Prabhupada:

From a lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.41 on May 3, 1973, in Los Angeles:

“But these rascals, they do not know, they do not believe that there is next life. As I have told you many times, that Professor Kotovsky in Russia, he said, ‘Swamiji, after this body’s finished, everything’s finished.’ Just see. He’s a big professor. He’s saying like that. Our scientists also... They have no knowledge. Still they’re passing as scientists, philosophers, and misleading persons. This is our greatest grief. Therefore I am requesting you all: just make a plan to face these rascals and defeat them. They are misleading the whole human society.”

Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami:

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part One, pages 62–63:

“You have some little part in a dance.

Watching films of you in crowd of devotees

around Srila Prabhupada thirty years ago, so intense,

adoring, competitive…now I

watch it with detachment,

restrain fault-finding… / but I don’t take part now /

I wouldn’t want to go back to then

who am I? Who are we? What is true?

“Soundless movie track, men who have since left

him, grown old, died, babies now young men

mostly chose to leave him / beautiful young mothers,

now where? Bare arms who cares for it now?

Was it worth striving for honor and place?

Look at them…if I had known back then to

stay alone…but you had to push forward

so your guru would recognize you.

“I think of him differently now. Not as seen

in those images.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part One, page 95:

“Nihil Obsta

“I don’t object to whatever they

put out. I’ll find my way in Krishna consciousness

I’ll hear it in ‘Laura’ piped in music

to the battleship or office

I may be working in

next life, or worse than that.

“I’ll find my Krishna, have to dust

it off, my forgotten Krishna consciousness,

clean it from modes dross

I find myself in

but nihil obsta,

there’s ultimately no block.

“Ahaituki apraihatah,

the sincere one finds the way

because Krishna is reaching out to him

saying, There are no obstacles,

“come to Me

by the movement of your own will

and mind to Me,

start with your little finger…”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part One, pages 227–28:

“I’ll take my turn

in sadhana instead of

indulging in world

art, world love,

that’s how it has to be

for us soldiers,

sadhus,

recruits.

That’s what we want

to give it up and sing it

for Krishna

now and never. (forever?)”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 9–12:

“I am not going to learn

from doctor or shrink

or priest or new guru

or my own…

stay with the one

who taught you in youth

and sustains.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 51–52:

“But I like to walk

if it can help it

and think that You

are with me everywhere

and will teach me

and love me and protect me

and that You’re doing it

for everyone. So many they’re not wrong

when they say please accept me as I am

and I accept You.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 52–54:

“Your only asset, your guru’s

accepting your service still in this

broken whimsical condition

self-righteous each one

in the grave, burned on pyre

now He’ll figure it out where

you go He’s better than

any government or military board

to serve you orders

for next ship base

program.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 78–80:

“Now, got to go with it

now Krishna is seen in

everything

wake up fool

He’s here

in Gita talking

to you”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 103–4:

“I want to be free but not in

a cage of my own making like

I did before July ’66…”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 29, Part Two, pages 131–33:

“Better get happy in the remaining

time. Don’t fall down. It’s

up to Krishna. Srila Prabhupada prayed that

I would not – he said

‘May Krishna protect you from

calamities.’ What calamities? I

thought. Little did I know.

Still don’t.

Krishna is known to His pure

devotee.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part One, pages 53–55:

“now thank Krishna for the bounty

of a bhakti directed life I

could not take advantage

of Mathura the Lord of,

but let it be said he kept

his connection with the Swami

as he thought he was supposed to”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part One, pages 53–55:

“I say you can write you runs

and puns and series and concoctions,

but just make it good for Krishna

and the best way is to be

truly yearning for His lotus feet.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part One, pages 196–97:

“I’m still crazy

ego false but want

to never leave my Swami’s

shelter.

“‘Why is there anything?’

For ananda [pleasure], the Swami said in

Mexico.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part One, pages 197–98:

“we were about to declare in-

competency or more accurately

complacence, when a reminder

came that man should try his

best to retrieve a spirit of

work for God

“we were on the verge of rebellion

when He gave us a little strength and

clarity and we stayed on course

I pray master this day

of July 4, that I’ll not

be independent of the rule,

declare myself eager for

the simple things you gave.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part Two, pages 29–31:

“We know only a little of Krishna

at least we know He does

exist. It’s not a void at

core, and we ourselves are not

Lord Narayana in abstract.

At least we know that

Krishna is rare to see, but

His devotees can show Him

to the discerning pure soul.

“Now, believe in me. I only want

to present His teachings nicely.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part Two, pages 53–55:

“I’m Govinda’s slave we all are

in maya in this world

Yogamaya in that world

“Krishna, Krishna hurry along who

will reach the scenic spot

first, who will touch

Krishna first

“the gopis tease and He teases

back all amorous language

and why the pouting anger?

It’s another way to please and

love the Lord of all gods

people will never understand

“but I do, a little. I know

I am covered still with material

modes – they make this

world seem real those

Time and Newsweek guys

But Krishna is with me.

And will protect the devotees.

“Don’t care for outsiders

make your own rhythm song.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part Two, page 107:

“Following the Vedas the Easy Way

“Sad your lot you want

the easy way you can’t

have a pain-free comfrey

roses also shatter and

fall to earth. The wind

blows the petals

and time kills

if not the fox

or hunter.

“But if you turn to God

you’ll find rest there eternal

the Vedas say and we believe.

We live according to the

code of guru

and Krishna in Goloka

“myself is happy to take part

at least that way

for beginners, easy start

you sing

eat prasada

and bow down – see the

forms of Supreme Lord, your master

is now or never telling you

what to do.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 30, Part Two, page 108:

If He’s Lucky

“As he grows older he

sees in a different way

that nothing of his life will last,

and that he achieved so little

“remembers if he’s lucky

a time he was obedient

to radiant guru

in old days

“and if he’s lucky,

self-reliant,

he turns to

him again

and he’s lucky.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 31, Part Two, page 20:

“Swami keep punching

when you serve your master

all reason is right

may you be on top for the

internal festival even at

the end.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 32, page 125:

“Simple Swami won’t desert,

women don’t disturb him

aw, he’s got his claim, prays

master, protect me. I wish

instead of dead or dread

to live in you forever.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 49:

“now

in Krishna consciousness in Kali-yuga

it’s being spread wide and they may

criticize but somehow it goes on

and people are learning to chant Hare Krishna

“We want them to take it up as our spiritual master gave it. I’m read to defend my own presentation which helps people come closer to the truth of our Swami, our Founder-Acarya. Yes, I am for him but to make it true I must personally go and I’m doing it, to hear from him and his followers.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 88:

“Krishna went to the pasture. He said I want to

make everyone happy. He wanted all living beings

to return home, back to Godhead, that’s

why there is a recurring creation,

to give us a chance. Meanwhile, He goes on sporting

with the liberated bhaktas and

waits for us, for the chance we may each return.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 117:

“There was a little fellow

who snatched back his soul

from the black hole of

material life. Owed his

life to the Swami and worked

hard for that.

But the devil claimed it

back now he’s fighting

tack to tack.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 187:

“knowing what’s best

you can’t take less.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 203:

“Krishna is for each one of us

if we will turn to Him in

His holy names. I hear the murmur

of a devotee’s japa and wonder

if he’s actually praying and even if

he’s not, I hope the Lord will

hear and bless each one of us

with steps to prema.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 213:

“So, he wiled, the wild man

could serve Krishna too under

guidance of guru like the race of hog

herders who became exalted by

service to Nilamadhava,

“like Westerns who came to the Swami. I am not

indulging in the

worst fault-finding. He gave us

the good thing, and we must

honor and receive it.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, pages 221–22:

“Hare Krishna Hare Krishna,

a poem about praying:

May the Lord

of room and board

allow me guts to utter

mantras as the follower

and get a taste before I die

may the Lord Sri Krishna

give me the mercy only

He can bestow

and may I honor that gift.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, pages 230–31:

“Please pay attention to it,

the moment you can spring upon

Krishna conscious reflections or out of

Your body and mind and grab

hold of sastras in a way

that pleases and arrests your hearers.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 236:

“If you could only connect to Krishna

with that heartache,

throbbing, with tears, for

Govinda, hari-nama,

you’d be doing fine and nothing

could harm or disrupt.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 308:

“Japa care is a habit

always chant it here

purpose is to capture God

a tongue and ear are all

you need. And Swami’s

grace.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, pages 308–9:

“Japa is the main yajna

and kirtana even better

please move your beads on fingers

after the guru, the giver

of the name.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 33, page 321:

“No more sandwiches

no meat no heroes or women

to enjoy in any way – oh,

you still enjoy them as loving

disciples, yeah well that’s

not sense grat.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 35, page 29:

“Waiting for lunch.

Can’t imagine I’ll die.

I write about it as a fact,

but it’s too scary.

“So, you turn to the Eternal.

As escape? Yes, why not?

Escape from death and void

depend on sastras

which tell us the soul

never dies, he just jolts out

of one body, falls asleep

and awakens in a body new.

“We pray to Krishna – please

give us inspiration to desire

no more births

but join You in Goloka

where Your pure devotees please You forever.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 35, page 56:

“The mad poet ate a shark

in a bedroom dark

as compensation for a quiet life.

He didn’t like strife and

begged off if he could

from plenty suffering.

“But the sastra says unless

you suffer you’ll not be blessed

by the Lord who wants to

see how much you

love Him by your penance.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 35, pages 99–100:

“You publicity hound

ISKCON is good

take our food

believe our movement can save the world or at

least take a sweet-ball and

visit our boathouse or Fisher mansion, take a

book, don’t ask us where our gurus went to after the

drop out. Here, look at this picture of the spark

of soul in the chest

and this diorama

this dollar bill with God we trust, this

Mahabharata, this maha-burfi, this you-gotta-reform-

your-life, Mr. Non-devotee,

and I will help you

grow your plant

of devotion

to God (is Krishna).”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 35, page 156:

“I told you the souls come into existence. They get

reborn, so if you

get the chance

to dance with tulasi

and Lord Caitanya, count yourself

as lucky.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 35, page 213:

“if the nations crash before that –

he said even ISKCON could crash –

we’ll be still happy enough in

Prabhupada seva.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, pages 21–22:

“Whose view of pain is right?

Embrace or resist?

Perhaps it winds up the same

in this world of pain,

Krishna’s service the only aim.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, pages 93–94:

“Learn to not eat unless He eats. To not

attempt to pamper your body. To love

the Supreme Lord whom you’ve only heard of.

No, I saw Him too on the altar,

in a devotee, lake, moment.

People talk about it, ‘He is here and

there.’”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, pages 98–99:

“Believe in Bhagavad-gita and

distribute the holy

Hare Krishna

offer the best Christmas present

to the world.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, pages 100–1:

“Holocaust. More words in my throat my

poems don’t count

anymore they thrust out

and fear dreams my

seniority doesn’t count either

but at least brings me

a bowl of soup.

In the little world, I am

universally acclaimed because I am one

of the first disciples. My begging bowl

full of soup I feel bolder and

ask for apple pie

too.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, pages 115–16:

“O Krishna, You can see

below the covering

of myself, and love me

even as I wish I could love myself.

Krishna, You love all from

Brahma to lesser devas and on

to humans, animals, plants, souls

all.”

“This street on which I live has

no name it’s so remote,

and no one ever comes here

to break the peace

of life with pain and

japa.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, page 120:

“Life isn’t just the good times

rolling. It has sorrow, jagged

pain. It moves fast sometimes,

then slow, as we march with nervous

energy to a funeral of classical beauty.”

From Every Day, Just Write, Volume 37, page 132:

“Jesus, on your day, please allow me

entrance of your holy place. I’m a

devotee of Hare Krishna, a disciple

of Srila Prabhupada

so, you may know me in

the divine realm

beyond sects.”

From “Writing Session #1” in Free Write Journal #64:

“May Srimati Radharani know that if I read less of Her pastimes it doesn’t mean I don’t work to attain Her favor and the service of Her associates. But I think it’s best I serve wholly the tangible person who first taught me of service and worship to Radha, that is, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Dearest Mother of Bhakti, I pray You will see this concentration of mine not as alien to my cultivation of service to You, but as the best practical means to achieve it. One may hear of Your intimate pastimes with Syama by opening a rasika book, but if one isn’t qualified it will become a travesty, and You will be displeased.

“(December 21, 1993

Wicklow, Ireland)”

From “Writing Session #7” in Free Write Journal #64:

“Your headaches, suddenly plans destructed. Then you have to see that Providence has her hand in it—Krishna’s in it—Krishna’s will. You turn to Writing Session also and explain it to yourself. Say, “I had this nice plan, but now Krishna has changed it. He is showing me another feature of the material energy, and also He is bringing me closer to Him.’ Sastra says that He is more eager to bring us to Him than we are eager to go back to Godhead. So, to do that He sometimes makes moves that are surprises to us. We thought it was best to progress by smooth increments according to our plans, but He may have a different idea. What Taoists speak of as the flow to go with naturally is actually the will of Krishna, and in the case of the devotee, it is special handling, so he shouldn’t object or try to resist. ‘You may handle Me roughly or not be present before Me.’”

From “Writing Session #2” in Free Write Journal #65:

“Petty officer Myles. Report for duty. Write a hack story for the newspaper and Navy TV. No, thanks. I got out. Krishna got me through so many bad things, and I have some mental scars but basically safe and sound. Now in gratified remaining years, please write in gratitude, express your love in that way. This is an important point.”

“I write down my attempts and doubts and failures and foolishness, all committed on the path of bhakti, may Prabhupada accept me.”

“Writing is hard

reading is hard

chanting is hard

“Each of them I love, but to gain ‘mastery’ is not possible in any of them. To surrender to them, believe in them, practice in them . . . At least I see these are the goals of my life, to attain proficiency at these. Then your other main activity, to lecture, comes more or less automatically.”

“O angels, O guides, I am grateful. My choices themselves are good ones, whether to chant here or chant there, whether to share with the Wicklow devotees or go alone a little more. Either way. Mayapur or Vrndavana.

“Prabhupada, please guide me. Supersoul, give me the intelligence to lovingly serve my spiritual master.”

“Heaven, heaven. Indra is there. He comes down for his misbehavior. But you don’t presume to judge him. He is much greater than you. You are a pipsqueak who can’t even control your mind when you chant Hare Krishna.”

Kavicandra Swami:

From a conversation:

The Christians would form groups of Christians with similar professions so the people could more easily form friendships because they would have other things in common besides their Christianity.

When distributing books, Jadurani would say, “Krishna says to give everything, but you cannot do that, so just give as much as you can.”

From a morning class:

The British, when they were looking for workers in India for their factories, asked if the applicants were married because they knew the principle mentioned in the Bhagavatam that family life is an impetus for economic development.

Gaurikisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja was the guru of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, who was his only disciple.

He lived in Vrindavan for thirty years.

He took initiation from a disciple of Jagannatha Dasa Babaji Maharaja.

He had two books, Prema-bhakti-candrika and Prathana, of Narottama Dasa Thakura. He advised others to read these books, and in that way he was a book distributor, although he did not have stock of books himself.

When the birthplace of Lord Caitanya was found, he moved to Navadvipa dhama.

He would come and listen to Bhakivinoda Thakura’s lectures.

St. Francis was going blind because he was crying all the time. The doctors said he should stop crying. St. Francis said, “I do not need these eyes to see God.” Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja said the same thing when Bhaktivinoda Thakura advised him to see an eye doctor in Calcutta when he was going blind.

I was talking to an Indian who had become a Christian, and I advised him to sin no more. He replied that he did not have to worry because he had an advocate in Jesus, but that is sahajiya [retaining acts of sense gratification and taking devotion to God very cheaply].

It wonderful that we are in a line including such amazing people as Gaurikisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja, and we should feel gratitude that they allow us to be in their lineage.

Sometimes Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was torn between the mood of Bhaktivinoda Thakura and that of Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati started whatever Bhaktivinoda Thakura wanted him to implement in Mayapur, but now because of Srila Prabhupada it is all becoming fully manifest.

We can pray to Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja for the ability to chant the holy name, and we can pray to feel separation from Krishna. We are always feeling separation from something.

To chant two or three hundred thousand names of the Lord each day one has to have some taste for the chanting. One cannot do it mechanically.

In China there were five shops in a row that sell headphones. So people have a desire to hear, but they do not know what to hear.

Marriages these days are love at first sight and divorce at first fight.

In India ladies hire detectives to catch their husbands enjoying with other women so that they can get a good divorce settlement. The marriages out of love fail more frequently because they are conducted by the mode of passion as compared to the arranged marriages.

Q: It is said taking too much care of the body is a cause of sex desire. What is taking too much care of the body?

A: Eating palatable food, building up your muscles to show off, dressing opulently, etc.

Niranjana Swami:

From a lecture recorded in Boston on October 30, 2019:

If you ask any devotee where they were on November 14, 1977, the day Srila Prabhupada left his body, they all remember. I was on I-84, and I knew I would be late getting to Boston, so I called the temple president, Agrani Prabhu, to inform him, and Agrani told me Srila Prabhupada had left. I was driving a van full of uninitiated book distributors I was training up, and I had to give them the news. It was one of the most difficult things I did in my life. I spoke from my realization that Srila Prabhupada would not have left unless he had a program for continuing his movement because that is what he wanted done. In the marathon of December 1977, we distributed more books than ever before, meditating on how important it was to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada had said that those he had appointed to initiate on his behalf would continue to initiate after he left, but the disciples would be their own disciples. That was clear.

Prabhupada’s guru convinced Prabhupada that better than a free India was freedom of the living entities from the repetition of birth and death.

In Mulaprakrti’s book, Our Prabhupada – A Friend to All, Nayanananda Das Babaji tells: On the last day of the last parikrama of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura one devotee returned from London without complete success. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said it was the desire of Bhaktivinoda Thakura and the last request of his mother that Krishna consciousness be spread all over the world. Guru Maharaja was looking out at the devotees, first in front toward all the brahmacaris and sannyasis, and then toward me, and I looked behind me and saw Abhayacaranaravinda Prabhu, and Guru Maharaja seemed to be communicating with him. Then Guru Maharaja said, ‘I have a prediction that one of my disciples will cross the ocean, and that devotee will bring back the whole world.’ Then I saw it happened exactly that way.

In the beginning we did not have vehicles, we had to sell BTGs [Back to Godhead magazines] to get enough money for the subway to sell more BTGs.

In the beginning in India, Srila Prabhupada was the only distributor of his BTG and would go out on a bicycle to the tea stalls. The printer was reluctant to print more until he had paid for what he had, and he would have to preach to him to continue, promising to pay.

One time at 1:00 a.m. Prabhupada arrived at the Gaudiya Math, and he knocked on the door, and said to his Godbrother B. R. Sridhara Maharaja, he had a dream that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura told him to take sannyasa. Sridhara Maharaja was worried because he was friends with the De family and the Mullik family what would happen if he gave Prabhupada sannyasa. He told Srila Prabhupada to prepare internally and then communicate his desire to his family in due course, and then he would give him sannyasa. Later Prabhupada had another dream, and again he appeared at the Math in the middle of the night. Sridhara Maharaja advised him to take the first of the four stages of sannyasa. Prabhupada said, “No, I must take sannyasa. The order has come from above.” Then he left home, without taking anything with him. That was in 1955.

One of my services to Srila Prabhupada was to renovate this temple in Boston for his visit. I was a carpenter before I became devotee, so I prepared these rooms for his arrival in 1975. As it turned out, Indira Gandhi agreed to meet Srila Prabhupada, so he changed his itinerary, and never came to Boston and never saw the temple. Distributing books was another service I did for him.

Prahladananda Swami:

Happiness means to have no wants.

The material world is a discouraging place to live because whatever we have we will lose, and we are guaranteed to encounter things that we do not want like disease, old age, and death.

In London, a reporter asked Srila Prabhupada why so many people are dying in India. Srila Prabhupada said that he noticed, despite its advancement, even in England people are dying. In fact, the death rate is 100%.

Give Krishna a chance.

Even persons who have given up hankering and lamentation and who can see all beings equally are attracted by Krishna.

For one who has attained Krishna, everything else is tuccha-vat, insignificant.

As soon as we are thinking we are sane, we are crazy. We have to be sane enough to know we are crazy, and then endeavor to be more spiritually sane.

People wonder why we endeavor so much for spiritual happiness, but why do they endeavor so much for material things when they actually know within that material things will not satisfy them because they have not satisfied them before.

Real knowledge is to know how to develop love and happiness. Other knowledge is superficial.

Unless we see things as they are, we cannot act with conviction, and without acting in conviction we cannot attain Krishna.

We can consider that we are like puppeteers, and our bodies are our puppets.

In material life, we do not care about ourselves. We are only concerned that we make a good presentation with our puppets.

As devotees we are not concerned about the relationship between the puppets but the relationship between the puppeteers.

In the spiritual world, one sacrifices everything because the return is so great.

Lord Caitanya emphasizes the atmarama verse so people stop trying to satisfy themselves and start trying serve Krishna and thus become genuinely self-satisfied.

Q: What did Lord Caitanya use the story of Mrgari the hunter to exemplify the atmarama verse?

A: Because we are all engaged in killing.

In Dallas, whoever could remember a chapter of Bhagavad-gita would get a maha-prasadam plate. Prabhupada came and the devotees recited for him the Sanskrit to Chapter One. When he asked them what it meant, they did not know, and he declared it was useless, like the recitation of a parrot.

Everything comes from vibration.

We are imagining we are doing so many things, but we are just experiencing different situations created by the material nature.

Everything depends on who we are listening to. In the material world, everything is going on because of propaganda.

People do not realize they are naturally self-satisfied because their hearts are filled with so many desires created by propaganda, and thus they become dissatisfied.

They tell you to go to college, but they don’t tell you will spend the rest of your life paying the interest on your student loans.

You get a car to serve you, but you end up becoming the servant of the car. You have to get gas and oil, and tires. You have to use the car to go to work to pay for the car.

We do not preach to people who think they are happy in this material world because it is a waste of time. They are like someone whose house is burning down but they are so busy watching their favorite TV program they do not notice.

Krishna wants everyone to know He is the enjoyer, He is the proprietor, and He is the friend of everyone. If we are assisting Him in that, we become pleased.

Q: What if you do not know what to say to people on book distribution?

A: Say to them, “You must be a very spiritual person. I can see it in your eyes. What do you do for spiritual activity?”

They may respond, “I play tennis.”

Then you say, “I knew it!”

Many times in Bhagavad-gita Krishna says that He will give confidential knowledge or more confidential knowledge.

It appears that Krishna has set it up so just a few people know who they actually are. How is that? Actually we are all meant to realize our spiritual identity, but we are living in a world where no one is endeavoring in that way, so we think it is natural to be unaware of our spiritual identity.

Srila Prabhupada gave many classes on how we are not the changing body but the unchanging spiritual soul. One may think “Oh, another class on ‘I am not my body.’ How boring! Why not something more exciting like Krishna and the gopis.” Actually, when we realize we are not the body, we realize a great spiritual truth.

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.2.35, Srila Prabhupada describes how you can use your intelligence to realize Krishna’s feature as Supersoul.

Hearing involves paying attention. If we are not paying attention, we are still listening, but we are listening to our mind.

If we think knowledge is all there is and there are no feelings, we miss out on a lot of what life is about, and we miss out on what Krishna consciousness is.

We do not just want to know Krishna but to have feelings for Krishna.

People aren’t present because they are waiting to get out of their current situation.

We are hearing about Krishna but we are not immediately in ecstasy, so we go back to listening to our mental speculation because we find it more interesting.

Most people do not realize that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, they trying to avoid death.

If we had a pill that would make people live a year longer but it costs $100,000, people would line up to buy one. But when we talk about how to live eternally, people are uninterested. This is due to maya, illusion.

In the Hare Krishna movement, we are supposed to be practicing loving exchanges not tolerance.

Service to Krishna means to become more expert in loving exchanges.

Initiation means beginning to act as a servant of Krishna and His devotees and to give up the false ego.

Actually sometimes people who become initiated, instead of progressing, move in the opposite direction because they become proud and decrease their attitude of service to the devotees of the Lord.

Q: How to feel love for people who are nondevotees?

A: We understand from the pure devotee how Krishna loves everyone and that the pure devotee himself loves everyone, and then we can begin to feel love for everyone ourselves.

We have to try to pay attention, and we have to try to feel.

If we are expecting something wonderful from the chanting we will be open to experiencing something wonderful from the chanting.

When people are speaking to us they are engaging us in the service of listening to them.

Krishna says that from Him come remembrance, knowledge, and forgetfulness. We can experience remembrance, knowledge, and forgetfulness are beyond our control. Thus we can experience these are controlled by Krishna.

At a certain level of consciousness we can experience Krishna in His picture and Srila Prabhupada in his murti.

There was a popular TV show host in Australia who had a habit of criticizing his guests. Srila Prabhupada agreed to be on the show because it was heard by a million people.

Prabhupada sat on a seat and on the seat next to him was a large photo of Krishna and a calf with a cow in the background.

The interviewer said, “Is that your God?”

Srila Prabhupada, “That’s not my God. That is everybody’s God.”

Then Srila Prabhupada asked the man, who was a Christian, to tell him everything he knew about God.

The interviewer thought, and said “Actually I do not know anything about God.”

Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, I know everything about God, and you know nothing about God, so listen to me.”

In the bodily conception of life everyone has a lot to lament about because this whole world is lamentable.

Demoniac people are proud of their atomic weapons. Previously we had to throw rocks at people to kill them, but now we can kill millions of people by pushing a button.

People build slaughterhouses and kill millions of cows, thinking they are advanced. They grind up the meat from the cows and make burgers. When eating a burger one has to suffer the karma for killing the hundred or so cows whose meat was ground up to make that burger.

We have to maintain the body as a tool to use for our self-realization.

When we understand we are not the body, we are happy because we know we are eternal, and we have no worry about the future because we know we will continue to exist.

People do not know their biggest mistake is they have forgotten Krishna and that they are servants of Krishna. When they come to understand this, they can begin to act in service to Krishna.

Q: How does the pure devotee behave?

A: Krishna explains in Bhagavad-gita 9.13–14, “O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible. Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.”

Devotional service is not just an activity, it is a consciousness as well.

The sambandha is that everything belongs to Krishna, and this is easy to remember and easy to forget.

We want to hear in a such a way that we see what we are hearing.

Because everything is Krishna’s property, it should be used in His service.

We will never realize we are not our bodies if we do not engage Krishna’s property in Krishna’s service.

Not only do we do what guru, sadhu, and sastra say, but we try to please the self-realized souls. Thus we have to hear from them so we understand how to render them service.

Everything people do, everything they say, and how they dress themselves is sending you a message. You may not understand the message. In that case, you can ask them.

We have to observe where our consciousness is going and to observe where their consciousness is going.

If we have loving relationships among the devotees, then we will be inclined to go out and invite more people to join the family.

Book distribution is a challenge, and it is meant to be a challenge. Without the challenge, we would never take shelter of Krishna.

We are there to serve Krishna and His devotees. Everyone is a devotee because they are all souls, part of Krishna. Krishna is in their hearts, and we are trying to connect them to Krishna.

We should not think, “I say, ‘Excuse me,’ and they immediately stop. Just see my Godlike potency!”

People should feel that we are trying to benefit them, although they may not exactly understand how.

When Krishna sees our sincerity, He enlightens us from within, and we will not have to artificially try to remember Him.

The right attitude is that I have been appointed to do this service by Krishna, and I just want to do it to please the devotees and the Lord.

Srila Prabhupada said that our greatest asset is our enthusiasm. When people see the devotees happy in spiritual consciousness they become attracted.

We can desire to distribute more books and to make more devotees, but we should remember that we are desiring these because that is Krishna’s desire. Krishna has to be part of the equation.

Drutakarma Prabhu:

No one has explained exactly how living beings have come into being from molecules.

I am conscious. You are conscious. It is not a matter of faith. It is something we can all experience.

Scientists think consciousness is produced from chemicals in the brain, but how exactly that takes place they cannot explain.

Out-of-body experiences indicate we have an existence beyond the body.

Although we have an existence beyond this body, somehow we are now situated within a body. Why?

We all feel uncomfortable living in a place where our existence is threatened at every moment. I think we feel we really do not belong here.

There is a spiritual world where all souls live in harmony with the Supreme Soul, Krishna.

Some have become selfish and they want to exploit and control others, and that mentality is not compatible with the spiritual world.

This world is a chance to act out our desires to control and enjoy, and at the same time, to become qualified to enter the spiritual realm.

Many universes are said to emanate from Maha-Vishnu in seed form and then expand.

Many scientists now consider there are many universes, but that idea has been around before they thought of it.

Many scientists also believe the universe was small and is expanding.

As a automobile manufacturer designs many different kinds of cars for people with different economic backgrounds, the Supreme Lord has provided different kinds of bodies for those with different desires.

We should understand where we are so we can use this world as a launching pad to the spiritual realm. It is just like you need to understand the airport so you can get your flight to another destination.

Although in the Vedic descriptions there are things that we cannot see, in modern science there are also many things we cannot see. They say only 5% of the universe is matter which is visible, while 30% is dark matter and 65% is dark energy which are not visible.

Because the universe is meant for the spiritual development of human beings, they have been there from the beginning.

The person who has created the universe has instructed us in the Vedas and periodically comes to remind us of our spiritual identity.

We have divided ourselves into many competing groups by race, gender, and species, but we do not have to do this. We are all part of one family.

I take the 400,000 humanlike bodies to include all planets and all universes, including hominids, like Homo this or Homo that. People have different names for them like angels, ETs, etc.

The human foot varies continuously in length, but the shoes come in different discrete sizes. Similarly although consciousness varies continuously, there are different species.

Purnaprajna Prabhu:

From a conversation at Rupanuga Prabhu’s home in Alachua:

Once Svarupa Damodara talked to Stanley Miller after a lecture, and asked, “If I give you all the chemicals, the RNA, the DNA, etc., can you create life?”

Miller replied, “I don’t know.”

Srila Prabhupada liked that, and he would tell it at different times.

Ramesvara Prabhu:

From a morning class at the Yuga Dharma Ashram in New York City:

If we learn that something is giving the Lord unhappiness, we have to act to alleviate it. Otherwise there is no question of love. By acting in this way, we become confidential associates of the Lord.

Srila Prabhupada had to deal with many Vaishnavas who refused to help him, and therefore, he had to start this movement on his own.

For years Indians thought the American devotees were spies for the CIA because they could not believe that Westerners could actually become Vaishnavas. Srila Prabhupada had to deal with all this.

In Sri Caitanya-caritamrita the innermost feelings of the greatest and most merciful incarnation of God are being revealed.

This chapter three of Antya-lila is an amazing chapter.

“On this earth there are many living entities,” the Lord said, “some moving and some not moving. What will happen to the trees, plants, insects and other living entities? How will they be delivered from material bondage?” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, Antya 3.67)

Who is worrying about the welfare of the plants and the insects? That is the compassion of the Lord.

Ruci distributed a Srimad-Bhagavatam to a Muslim in the airport, and the man exclaimed, “Ha Rama!” [Understanding the man was benefiting by unconsciously chanting the holy name of Rama,] Ruci asked him what he was saying, so he repeated it again and again.

I would type up a report listing all the devotees who went out on book distribution, the best story from the day, and the list of devotees scheduled to go out the next day, and I posted it so the devotees could read it. I also give it to Srutakirti Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada’s servant. Srila Prabhupada was very happy.

They started distribution at the airports, and then at the bus and train stations, and even at the docks.

In the airports so we did not get caught, we would stand in the ticket lines and sell books to the people behind us and in front of us in the lines. When we would get near the front of the line, we would go to the back of another line.

Although it was illegal to distribute books in the airports, and the policeman and security guards were always on the lookout for us, in the decades we distributed at the Los Angeles airport, there were no devotees from that temple who were ever arrested.

I encouraged one man at the airport to take thirty books. Then he asked how he could carry them all. I asked if he was coming back through the airport. He said he was. I suggested he rent a locker in the airport and put the books there, and I helped him find one. That person was Peter Burwash, who ended up doing so much service for the movement.

There was so much ecstasy that people felt they could sell any number of books to anyone.

Srila Prabhupada was so thankful his disciples distributed so many books he said, “My Guru Maharaja will give you blessings a thousand times what I can give you.”

Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu:

From a conversation at his home in Upstate New York:

The original Hare Krishna devotees were double dropouts. They had dropped out of the American culture of the day, and then they dropped out of the counter culture to become devotees.

Comment by my sister, Karen (when I read the above to her): That was clear from the movie [Hare Krishna!]. Srila Prabhupada did not go after people who were happily situated.

We can see how Krishna cares for us in that He sent Srila Prabhupada, who was willing to suffer so much inconvenience, just to bring His message to us.

In graduate school at Temple University I heard that the real question is not “does God exist?” but “is God available?” When I encountered the devotees, I learned that God is available, right there in His holy name. You just do a few things on your own, give up few activities of passion and ignorance, and you can experience Him.

I see it is true that Krishna does make arrangements for you. I had no savings or rich disciples, but somehow or other I am able to stay in this house in Stuyvesant Falls, formerly used by Mother Kaulini. When the Hare Krishna straightedge band, Shelter, was looking for a place to stay, I let them stay in the Philly temple. Now years later, Saci Suta, who was with Shelter, is allowing me to stay on his property.

Comment by Sraddha Devi Dasi: I remember you talking about the ideal situation for you two months before. Then when we got this place, I was amazed to see it had every feature you dreamed of.

Madhava Prabhu of Alachua County:

While Krishna held up Govardhan Hill, the residents of Vrindavan praised His beauty: “His beautiful form is the very ornament of the entire earth. Krishna glances lovingly at us as His eyes roam here and there. His face is more dazzling than ever before.” Another resident said, “On His flute He plays soft sweet tunes that fill our hearts with exhilaration.”

Excerpts of prayers for residence at Govardhan:

Oh hill that became an umbrella, held by the arm of your own Lord . . .

Let me see the divine couple’s passionate amorous pastimes in your own caves . . .

O you, who bring great bliss to the best of those who relish transcendental nectar, . . .

O you, whose nectar name, the best of Hari’s servants, flows from moonlike Radha’s mouth, . . .

Govardhan is the best of Hari’s servants, and one of his services is to facilitate devotional service to Krishna.

Excerpts of a prayer by Rupa Goswami:

The gopis astonished by your glories describe you as the best of Hari’s servants . . .

Your Lord Himself is the decoration of the universe . . .

O hill, decorated with the rasa-lila, . . .

Princeton University professor of sociology, Matthew Desmond:

[As my mother is a social activist, I went to some of her meetings while in Albany, such as this one, which tells about one anomaly of Kali-yuga here in America.]

From a lecture on his book, Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City:

In America we have the richest country and have the worst poverty.

I followed many families in Milwaukee who got evicted, and I followed their landlords who were passing out eviction notices.

Eviction pushes families into greater disadvantage.

Traditionally in America, people spend 30% on housing. Now the majority of Americans pay over 50% for housing.

Only one of four who qualify for housing assistance receive it.

In Milwaukee landlords evict 40 people a day.

www.evictionlab.org has all kinds of statistics.

2.3 million people were evicted in one recent year in USA.

Only 10% of evictions are formal.

There used to be a day care center in the South Bronx eviction center because so many kids were running around.

Only two cities have a moratorium on evictions in the winter, Washington, D.C., and Chicago, not Anchorage, not Fargo, and not Milwaukee, where it is bitter cold.

Arlene, whose I case I am focusing on in this lecture, had to call 90 people to find another place two months after her eviction.

For families with kids there are three times as many evictions although that kind of discrimination is not legal.

In languages all over the world the word for “home” includes warmth, shelter, etc.

Evictions can prevent you for getting a better place or even getting public housing.

Eviction is not an effect of poverty but a cause of poverty.

Housing should be a right in America, because without it, everything falls apart.

As slums have been largely eliminated in America, we can make progress eliminating this problem.

justshelter.org lists groups helping people get housing.

There is a lot of evidence that housing aid does not decrease a person’s participation in the job market.

Poverty reduces people who are made for better things.

22 billion dollars could make the housing assistance program reach all who qualify instead of just 25%. Reducing home owner tax subsidies for the rich, which amount to 171 billion, could easily pay for this.

If poverty persists in America, it is not due to lack of resources.

One third of evictions are made for failure to pay only a month or less of rent.

Only 3% of evictions are made for six months of unpaid rent.

People in good communities are not enthusiastic to allow new housing construction in their areas, and that is a problem.

Statistics show that landlords in poor neighborhoods make twice as much profit because the rent is not that much lower but their expenses are much lower.

BI / TOVP Cosmography Workshop November 1–3, 2019, in Gainesville

[Because I worked with Sadaputa Prabhu for 17 years, and helped with the publishing of his Mysteries of the Sacred Universe book and video, devotees from the Bhaktivedanta Institute of Gainesville encouraged me to attend their joint workshop on cosmography with devotees involved in the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium. This occurred the first three days of November. People made different interesting points about the Bhagavata Cosmology and how to present it. Because of an agreement on confidentiality, I cannot say who said what, although I would like to give the speakers credit for their ideas. Here I share some new or interesting ideas I gained from it which may be of interest to others.]

We do not really know anything, and in fact, we all, theist and atheist, take leaps of faith and doubt.

While distributing books as a brahmacari I met a disciple of Srila Prabhupada who had left the movement when the Fifth Canto came out. I had heard of such people, but I had never met one. So coming to an understanding of the Fifth Canto description of the universe is important.

Sukadeva Goswami starts his discussion of cosmology by saying, “My dear King, there is no limit to the expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead’s material energy. This material world is a transformation of the material qualities [sattva-guna, rajo-guna and tamo-guna], yet no one could possibly explain it perfectly, even in a lifetime as long as that of Brahma. No one in the material world is perfect, and an imperfect person could not describe this material universe accurately, even after continued speculation. O King, I shall nevertheless try to explain to you the principal regions, such as Bhuloka, with their names, forms, measurements and various symptoms.” (SB 5.16.4)

Srila Prabhupada comments: “The limits of the expansions of Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, cannot be estimated by anyone, even a person as perfect as Brahma, not to speak of tiny scientists whose senses and instruments are all imperfect and who cannot give us information of even this one universe. We should therefore be satisfied with the information obtainable from Vedic sources as spoken by authorities like Sukadeva Gosvami.”

Plato’s allegory of the cave can be useful to us.

Platonic-Pythagorean schools emphasized mathematics, and considered it could train the mind so it could think of transcendence.

During the Middle Ages, prominent Christian natural philosophers such as Jean Buridan and Nicolas Oresme argued that both geocentric and models described the same motion, and given the available evidence it was not possible to conclusively prove which was the more accurate model.

Aristotle argued that the crescent shape of the earth’s shadow on the moon during an eclipse indicates the earth is round. He also argued that when viewing a ship rise over the horizon you see the mast first, as additional evidence that the earth curves and is therefore a globe.

Copernicus who was a Roman Catholic priest, worked for the Church on calendar reform as a mathematician and astronomer. Copernicus would write: “as though seated on a royal throne, the Sun governs the family of planets revolving around it.” Possibly a sentiment reminiscent of Surya Narayana.

Galileo was a Roman Catholic, his daughter a nun. Thus on a personal level, he was not opposed to the Church but had difficulties with some leaders. A basic search using the term “Galileo affair” brings up numerous popular as well as academic sites offering details.

The Catholics had incorporated Greek natural philosophy into their educational system, and thus to promote a sun-centered view would involve rewriting textbooks. They had expressed a willingness to consider this at the time of Galileo if the natural science in support of heliocentric motion could be conclusively proven beyond reasonable doubt. Galileo did not yet have sufficiently convincing comprehensive evidence, while many of his scientific arguments were considered faulty, both then and now.

Darwin wrote in a letter to Charles Lyell not long after the publication of Origin of Species, “I am content that man will probably advance, and care not much whether we are looked at as mere savages in a remotely distant future.”

In our discussions, we should keep in mind that the cosmology chapters of the Fifth Canto of the Bhagavatam are in fact a description of a universal form. This is directly stated at the beginning and end of these chapters.

These quotes here are from the beginning of the cosmology chapters:

“When the mind is fixed upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His external feature made of the material modes of nature — the gross universal form — it is brought to the platform of pure goodness. In that transcendental position, one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, who in His subtler form is self-effulgent and beyond the modes of nature. O my lord, please describe vividly how that form, which covers the entire universe, is perceived.” (SB 5.16.3)

And here is what’s said at the end of the cosmology chapters.

“In the beginning [the second and third cantos of Srimad-Bhagavatam] I have already described how one can progress on the path of liberation. In the Puranas the vast universal existence, which is like an egg divided into fourteen parts, is described. This vast form is considered the external body of the Lord, created by His energy and qualities. It is generally called the virat-rupa. If one reads the description of this external form of the Lord with great faith, or if one hears about it or explains it to others to propagate bhagavata-dharma, or Krishna consciousness, his faith and devotion in spiritual consciousness, Krishna consciousness, will gradually increase. Although developing this consciousness is very difficult, by this process one can purify himself and gradually come to an awareness of the Supreme Absolute Truth.” (SB 5.26.38)

“One who is interested in liberation, who accepts the path of liberation and is not attracted to the path of conditional life, is called yati, or a devotee. Such a person should first control his mind by thinking of the virat-rupa, the gigantic universal form of the Lord, and then gradually think of the spiritual form of Krishna [sac-cid-ananda-vigraha] after hearing of both forms. Thus one’s mind is fixed in samadhi. By devotional service one can then realize the spiritual form of the Lord, which is the destination of devotees. Thus his life becomes successful.” (SB 5.26.39)

“My dear King, I have now described for you this planet earth, other planetary systems, and their lands [varsas], rivers and mountains. I have also described the sky, the oceans, the lower planetary systems, the directions, the hellish planetary systems and the stars. These constitute the virat-rupa, the gigantic material form of the Lord, on which all living entities repose. Thus I have explained the wonderful expanse of the external body of the Lord.” (SB 5.26.40)

Three types of universal form descriptions:

1. revealed as to Arjuna and Yashoda

2. authoritative descriptions from authorities

3. invitations to envision mentally a universal form

The cosmology chapters in the Fifth Canto of the Bhagavatam are part of an authoritatively described universal form.

In all these universal form descriptions there are those things that are visible and those that are invisible. What is the status of these?

So there are some verses and purports that raise doubts.

“The conception of the virat universal form of the Lord, as appearing in the material world, is imaginary. It is to enable the less intelligent [and neophytes] to adjust to the idea of the Lord’s having form. But factually the Lord has no material form.” (SB 1.3.30)

“As Paramatma, or Supersoul, the Lord is within each and every material form, even within the atoms, but the outward material form is but an imagination, both for the Lord and for the living being. The present forms of the conditioned souls are also not factual. The conclusion is that the material conception of the body of the Lord as virat is imaginary. Both the Lord and the living beings are living spirits and have original spiritual bodies.” (SB 1.3.30, purport)

Although in one sense, the universal form is imaginary, it does not mean we can take it all as imagined, and thus that the measurements do not have meaning. In another purport, Srila Prabhupada takes the virat-rupa as being similar to the arca-vigraha, and says both are forms of Krishna. They have dimension. Although this is true, we still have to maintain some humility, as shown in these quotes.

[Lord Brahma said to Narada:] “Since neither Lord Siva nor you nor I could ascertain the limits of spiritual happiness, how can other demigods know it? And because all of us are bewildered by the illusory, external energy of the Supreme Lord, we can see only this manifested cosmos according to our individual ability.” (SB 2.6.37)

“The demigods, semi-demigods, Gandharvas, etc., are all highly intelligent persons in the upper planets, the human beings are inhabitants of the intermediate planets, and the asuras are inhabitants of the lower planets. All of them have their respective conceptions and estimations of the Absolute Truth, as does the scientist or the empiric philosopher in human society.” (SB 2.6.37, purport)

“Everyone thinks, in terms of individual capacity, that this universe, which is manifested before us, is all in all. And so the scientist in the human society of the twentieth century calculates the beginning and end of the universe in his own way. But what can the scientists know? Even Brahma himself was once bewildered . . .” (SB 2.6.37, purport)

“We should simply be satisfied with the statements of authorities like Sukadeva Gosvami and appreciate how the entire cosmic manifestation has been made possible by the external energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The measurements given herein, such as 10,000 yojanas or 100,000 yojanas, should be considered correct because they have been given by Sukadeva Gosvami. Our experimental knowledge can neither verify nor disprove the statements of Srimad-Bhagavatam. We should simply hear these statements from the authorities. If we can appreciate the extensive energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that will benefit us.” (SB 5.16.10, purport)

Theophany is visible evidence of God’s manifestations.

I have analyzed the universal form descriptions in the Bhagavatam, and they vary according to the person hearing them, the person speaking them, and the purpose they are made for.

A very important point is that all the universal forms proceed from the original form of Krishna.

The universal form descriptions help people understand where they come from, where they are at, and that are all things are related to the original form of the Lord.

Q: Regarding Bhu-mandala and our meditation on it as the virat rupa, how much of it do you regard as a model? How much do we take as actual?

A: We are meant to understand it as far as our intelligence allows, as the Bhagavatam says.

Sadaputa Prabhu makes the point that the length of the day calculations are practically perfectly accurate at Delhi, where the conversation took place, but diverge as you go further away, thus indicating that actual knowledge is being given in the discussion.

Scientists have come up with what they call the “standard cosmological model” or Lambda-CDM.

Previously there were 10 or 15 serious problems in modern cosmology. Now there are 100 problems.

As devotees we should not trivialize the complexity of the universe.

There are parts of the universe that we have never seen because we have never received any light from there.

Stars can last one trillion years. No other traditional cosmology deals with trillions of years besides the Vedic cosmology.

In the secular world the standard is a 12-minute presentation with 3 minutes for questions. If we cannot keep to the times we promise, people in the secular world will not take us seriously.

There are 200,000 satellites going around the earth.

If we disagree with basic well-established facts about the earth, we are appealing to either:

1. Vast conspiracies.

2. Knowledge stolen by illusion.

3. The understanding that the Puranas are not describing the observable universe.

The Bhagavatam has the most complete cosmology of the Puranas.

Warped Passages, a book by physicist Lisa Randall, describes hidden dimensions.

Theory of branes indicates the universe may be small.

There is an idea that the laws of physics may not work uniformly throughout the universe.

The Bhagavatam heights correlate with the “modern mean distances to the planets.” There is the greatest correlation with the difference between maximum and minimum distances, pretty good correlation with the maximum distances, and the least correlation with the mean distances.

On the heavenly planets, as the demigods experience time to be very different from us, they also experience space to be very different from us.

There is a difference between the chariot of the sun and the abode of the sun, and their locations could be different as well.

The TOVP wants exhibits, and the BI wants publications.

I am happy to be here and talk about these important topics that have been on my mind for years.

Is it actually the job of BI to discredit scientific theories to make room for Puranic?

The burning questions are for me:

1. the relationship between bhu-mandala and bhu-gola

2. the size of the universe

3. the vertical dimension

The scale of time space is expanding not the universe itself. Thus the experience of a kilometer would be quite different when the time space expands.

Iron is the most stable element in the universe. Nickel is also very stable. That is why planets have iron and nickel cores.

Things heavier than iron and nickel are formed by collisions of stars and galaxies.

Some scientists say Jupiter was a failed star.

Scientists say our star is a second generation star formed from matter ejected from a supernova, and that is why the heavier elements are present in our solar system.

We can tell the elements the stars are made of from the spectra of light coming from the stars. Size is indicated by the brightness of the stars.

Using telescopes and trigonometry with parallax we can measure the distance of stars up to 100 million light years.

The experiments show that the theory of stars being nuclear furnaces using lighter elements to create heavier elements is justifiable.

This discussion reminds me of the calculation of time from the atom chapter of Srimad-Bhagavatam, with atoms combining to form hexatoms, and so on.

The first thing that expands is space, which is consistent with the Vedic idea that everything begins with space.

Some scientists (e.g. Roger Penrose et al.) are saying that this universe did not begin from an initial singularity but rather from a reduced state of a previously expired universe. This is because the singularity idea is problematic.

It is well known there are problems with the singularity idea.

The big bang was not an explosion but a quick manifestation.

Sukadeva Goswami was speaking to an audience composed of a variety of people, but no one was inquiring about details. It appears he was giving a summary for a general audience.

I take it as a literal presentation. If that does not work, we can see about other ways of seeing it.

When you have the potter’s wheel analogy and the two motions, it gets complex because of the 23.5 degree tilt. Sadaputa solved that by taking Bhu-mandala as the ecliptic plane because otherwise you would have to deal with the sun moving in a spiraling motion. Prana Gauranga Prabhu explains the spiraling up and down motion of the sun during the seasons. This is in addition to the movement of the whole chariot.

The purpose of the cosmological descriptions is to create faith, and we should make sure we do this in our representations of it.

Ujjain had a position of considerable importance in the field of Indian astronomy. Great works on astronomy such as the Surya-siddhanta and the Panch Siddhanta were written there. According to Indian astronomers, the Tropic of Cancer is supposed to pass through Ujjain. It is also the first meridian of longitude of the Hindu geographers. From about the 4th century B.C. Ujjain enjoyed the reputation of being a center of learning as well and the Prime Meridian, like the ‘Greenwich’ of the ancient world.

Pavaneshwar Prabhu’s book, Bhagavata Cosmology, is based on a model of a follower of Madhvacarya named Vidaraja Tirtha (1480–1600). He claims features such as Mount Meru, which we cannot see, are composed of some kind of subtle imperceptible matter.

To explain to our contemporaries the Bhagavata Cosmology, it is helpful to hear how a great Vaishnava acarya explained it to his contemporaries.

Loka is defined as that which you can perceive, which indicates that if you take birth in a certain place you are endowed with the senses you need to perceive it.

The Srimad-Bhagavatam presents an actual description of the universe, Srila Prabhupada accepted it that way, and he wanted us to present it that way in the TOVP.

Our senses cannot necessary perceive it as it is.

This can be presented directly or indirectly.

Generally we should accept the direct meaning, although indirect meanings may have value.

Sadaputa Prabhu explained in a letter to Tamal Krishna Goswami that he explained the universe in Mysteries of the Sacred Universe the way he did because he was worried that people would consider the Fifth Canto cosmology to be mythological and thus reject the whole literature.

BI is meant to preach to the scientists in their language. TOVP is to attract all the people of the world to Mayapur.

You need presentations both for people familiar with popular science and for people who are experts in science.

TOVP tends to focus on the presentations for those familiar with popular science rather than presentations for professionals in science.

It is important that in trying to relate how we see the universe in our experience to the description of Bhu-mandala that we do not interpret either in a trivial way.

I personally think that the Srimad-Bhagavatam describes the universe as Lord Brahma sees it and only a very few other people. Even Agastya Muni had to be especially empowered to see the seven islands and oceans.

I see the Jyotisa Sastra describes our experience.

The goal is to make a model that has fidelity to the Bhagavatam.

Although most of the audience is general, I think it is important to make sure that the arguments are sophisticated enough so that intellectuals appreciate them.

In the west wing we will show the Puranic and Siddhantic models side by side, and show how both work and are resonant. The main presentation is the Bhagavata Cosmology as described and modeled as it is as far as possible. In the history of ISKCON, by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, people who were very beginning artists were able, by his direction, to produce valuable and accurate artistic representations.

They have Graphic Guides done by Ph.D.s but for a general audience, thus a Ph.D. can see they are accurate but a layman can understand them. 

I see there are multiple ways Bhagavata Cosmology has been presented by serious devotees.

We are not going to have an argument. We are going to have a discussion.

Sanskrit is such a rich language one statement can have many meanings, all of which can be considered direct and all of equal value.

It is important we accurately represent the direct meaning in the model. Still presenting material from commentaries is valuable.

There can be several direct meanings as well as several indirect meanings.

We do not experience some aspects of Bhu-mandala. Why? Maybe it is hyperplane, a plane tangent to ours but in a higher dimension.

The vertical direction could be explained as an extrusion of the celestial sphere that is not a spatial transformation but an elevation in the modes of material nature.

Going to the subterranean heavens is like going into a casino. There is a lot of opulence but also a lot of ignorance.

There is a relationship between time and the modes. For example, in New York City, which is in the mode of passion, time speeds up, while in Upstate New York or in Maine, which is more in goodness, time slows down.

Perhaps we cannot perceive things because of different combinations of the gunas.

Looking at the same galaxy in different ways, you see different things.

Everyone, including the scientists, knows we cannot perceive everything. We have to explain why our senses cannot perceive certain things in order to give a good explanation.

Clockwise and anticlockwise movement of the sun involves hyperplanes.

Vishnu Purana divides Bharata-varsa into nine divisions, and only the last one is inhabited by humans. It is encircled by a sea, and it is 1000 yojanas, which is the size of the earth’s diameter. The experiences of the four yugas are limited to this region.

There are different geometries that may used to describe features of the Bhagavata Cosmology.

When we go into the Kali-yuga, we become more tamasic and thus less of the universe is presently accessible to us as human beings than before.

Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Tattva-viveka views the different philosophies he was aware of from the point of view of the paramahamsa.

We should not immediately jump to appeal to supernatural explanations. We should see how far we can go with other explanations first.

Carana Renu Devi Dasi’s model:

CRdd’s model uses a “Bhu-mandala floor” and a “rotating star dome,” with a 10' Mt. Meru and Jambudvipa on Temple room floor. She suggests placing Bilva-svarga, Ananta Sesa, and hells below the level of the temple hall.

Belt of the zodiac (ecliptic plane) at 23.4° tilt, thus Meru lines up with the north polar axis. Planets, sun and moon orbit here, each on their own tracks with their based on “simple observation.” Higher regions to be artistically portrayed along the galleries or within lower regions of the main dome.

Not a chandelier model.

Exhibits: present scientific explanations and connections with modern science.

Sadaputa Prabhu’s model:

Equatorial plane horizontal, small earth (1–2 in.) in center, connected to Dhruvaloka mounted on ceiling, rotating rod for daily motion. Bhu-mandala as the ecliptic plane, 23.5° tilt, rotates with rod but also moves counterclockwise on its own track as proper motion. The sun spiraling up and down will model the passing of the seasons, and also accounts for day and night.

If Bhu-mandala is physical, must be subtle energy, invisible and intangible to senses, or perhaps it is purely a geometrical model for describing celestial motion.

Two Merus: Puranic: 84,000 yojanas high in center of Jambudvipa. Surya-siddhanta: 1 yojana high at North Pole.

Uses Tiruvenkata Swami’s model for planetary orbits because it’s supported by Vaishnava tradition, it harmonizes with model’s structural details, good match with known astronomy.

Suggests two levels:

1. chandelier suspended from the ceiling above deities
2. Bhu-mandala flat on floor, sun’s chariot on circular track, planets orbit the sun

Mystic Universe:

Rsiraja Prabhu offers a semantic interpretation, along the lines of Rasaraja Prabhu’s work, suggesting a new space time geometry. He does this by redefining terms, e.g.:

• Distance: the semantic distance between two objects or the time it takes to send information from one to another
• Vertical dimension: successive stages of guna development through or different levels of abstraction
• Oceans: disconnection between activities
• Mountain: energy barrier or hardship in going from one domain to another

There are difficulties correlating this model with scientific observation.

His idea of relating distance to consciousness is useful. In fact one can derive useful ‘golden nuggets’ from the works of such devotees, even if one doesn’t agree with all their conclusions.

The idea is that there are other geometries that can better explain what we see in the Puranas.

Prahlada Prabhu, Janmastami Prabhu’s son, was so outraged that any of his friends believed that the earth was flat that he brought his friends to a lake that was nine miles long, and using a boat and a laser he was able to show the curvature of the earth to their satisfaction.

There were globe models that the Greeks had.

You have to be careful to understand the difference between Bhu-mandala and the earth under your feet, otherwise you can get absurd results.

I never saw the TOVP as an entity unto itself. I did not see it that way, and I do not think Srila Prabhupada saw it that way.

If we present things in a mood of accommodating people it is a different mood than explaining the veracity of something.

We had conversations with Srila Prabhupada in the beginning before the Fifth Canto was even printed for many, many hours, and I asked Srila Prabhupada about what we did not understand. He wanted it to make sense, and he was very concerned about that.

If you need people to believe the model, you have a problem. If you do not need people to believe it, you do not have a problem.

The BI is meant to bring the ideas we have learned all these years into the minds of incredibly intelligent people. Even if you get one guy to think in a different way, you have done a lot.

The real understanding of the sastra is not a physical model but different qualities.

How you interpret things very much depends on how you see things, not that there is a single way of seeing things.

The chandelier was meant just to show the planets.

The chandelier is meant to be a thing of wonder. In the temple there are meant to be levels of presentation of the universe meant to attract us to go to the spiritual realm.

The Madhvacarya followers in Udupi are the most learned Vaishnavas as far as the cosmography is concerned. They have a developed mathematical background.

Sridhara Maharaja said, “Do not consider it is static. Everything is always in motion.”

I think that Srila Prabhupada realized that the task was inhuman and thus, he once told Jayapataka Swami, “Make it smaller and just have some planets flying above the deities.”

When I was discussing with Sadaputa Prabhu, I suggested we have light frequencies and sound frequencies for each planet which would provide a concert and light show for the pleasure of the deity.

In other temples, you see deities of the nine planets around the side of the main deities but not above them.

Angkor Wat is the model we had in those days. Other temples are modeled after that.

There was another idea of having a pyramid with a planetarium in it before you come to the actual temple building.

Sadaputa Prabhu saved practically every paper that crossed his desk, so we have all kinds of materials from the history of Bhaktivedanta Institute going back to its inception in the mid 1970s.

Sadaputa Prabhu is right to bring attention to areas where modern and Vedic astronomy ‘agree’. However Danavir Goswami is also right to remind us that the ultimate authority for devotees is the Vedic paradigm.

The astrolabe in a museum in Geneva has Sanskrit inscriptions on it, adding weight to Sadaputa Prabhu’s planisphere and astrolabe models.

The odds that the close correlation between the sizes of the concentric rings of Bhu-mandala and the geocentric orbits of the solar system is merely a coincidence is more than 10,000 to one against.

The rings of Bhu-mandala relate to the geocentric orbits on the planets in Phase Space.

The geocentric orbit of Uranus was encoded in the Puranas, yet it was not discovered by Western astronomers until 1781.

One can accept both the Puranic and Siddhanta version of the universe, even if they appear to contradict each other. They are from different points of view, different levels of consciousness.

Encoded into the Surya-siddhanta are very close correlations with modern astronomy, especially when it comes to the relative distances and the diameters of the planets.

There are logarithmic maps of the universe. One was shared as an example of the fact that perhaps the universe as a whole cannot be approached as something restricted to linear space.

The vertical dimension of the Vedic universe does not represent physical / linear distance in space.

Two common themes:

The demigods experience the universe differently from us.

There are nonphysical aspects to the universe that we as devotees cannot ignore.

Most of Jambudvipa is a collection of heavenly realms which have karmic or some other connections with the global earth we can perceive (Bharata-varsa). Together they form part of the Greater Earth as experienced by the higher demigods.

The traveling upward of 80,000 miles refers to the movement of the subtle body. This accounts for the massive dimensions of the mountains of Jambudvipa. It could be that heavenly realms are accessible from various places within the mountainous regions of central Asia. However only those with the qualification can use such gateways.

One may require increasing higher qualification as one enters realms nearer to Mt. Meru. Thus Jambudvipa is ‘stepped’.

The lower planets can be reached by going within the earth, but they are not necessarily within the earth physically. Rather there are gateways to those realms under the earth.

You can have a vertical graph ordering planets by temperature. It was used as an example of how the vertical direction of the Vedic universe is not in the sequence of the physical locations of planets.

An example was given of a mother and child sitting close to each other and meanwhile the teacher is further away. In terms of mental capacity the mother has more in common with the teacher and is thus closer in a subtle way. Similarly, the earth and moon are close to each other physically, but in a subtle sense the sun is ‘nearer’ than the moon.

Perhaps in mystic travel a yogi would encounter the sun before the moon.

The Vedic universe was compared to an upside down cosmic tree, with the single, original trunk in the highest part of the universe identified as Lord Brahma’s abode.

The demigods are seeing more dimensions than we are.

It could be that Brahma can see everything in the universe, but his ongoing descendants see increasingly less and less of it. The higher beings can see lower beings, but the lower beings cannot see them. The more a being’s consciousness is focused on gross matter, the further down the tree it is, and the less it can ‘see’.

Perhaps planets have an additional dimension of ‘height’, i.e. places like the moon and Venus have gross level identities which are completely inhabitable, but in the higher more subtle dimension they are heavenly worlds. It’s a little like comparing the ground imprint of a two dimensional single side of a shape (its gross identity) with the full three-dimensional shape (full identity).

To travel from the earth to the heavenly aspect related to Venus (for example), one would need to travel both through gross-linear space as well as in another more subtle way.

In terms of sacred geometry, there are connections between Bhu-mandala and yantras. Also connections with vastu purusha mandalas, temple architecture such as Angkor Wat and the nine grahas.

It was also brought to the devotees’ attention that Maha Meru is a three-dimensional version of the Sri Yantra. Maha Meru includes Mt. Meru at its top center, which was used to support the proposal that Bhu-mandala is not completely flat. It is only relatively flat in the context of its role as the geocentric solar system. This was further supported by sharing illustrations by Vaishnavas of the medieval period, who represented Bhu-mandala as ‘stepped’ and leading up to Meru at its center. That type of progression, namely climbing steps of consciousness, also exists in the Surya-siddhanta and the Matsya Purana.

When it comes to the heavenly dvipas (planets) of Bhu-mandala (together with their exotic oceans), it was argued that they belong to much higher vertical locations in the universe but they may be accessible via gateways within this solar system.

Some realms in Bhu-mandala, such as Plaksadvipa do not have an orbital relationship with a recognizable planet in the solar system. It could be that it is a realm which exists on a much higher ‘vibration’ but has no planetary imprint on the gross sensory level.

Perhaps a Bhu-mandala on the floor of the TOVP showing the geocentric movements of the solar system would be wonderful.

Subterranean planets could be represented underground.

Use holograms. Updating exhibits would be easier, and guests, especially the youth, would find use of the latest technology attractive.

I see LA is like a subterranean heavenly planet.

Hitler sent a whole expedition to Antarctica looking for the hollow earth.

Places within the earth may be portals or gateways to lower planetary systems.

Not only within the earth but also on the surface of the earth. Bhima entered the realm of the Nagas by going into the water. In Hawaii it is said people enter other realms by entering volcanoes.

The Righteous Mind is a great book I recommend reading. We are not trying to change others’ minds but achieve a mutual understanding. Keep in mind the difference between details and principles.

Srila Prabhupada asked me to rewrite the Fifth Canto. He was not joking. He was talking about a future action. The ideas given in a book are a representation of them. What we are hearing now is different from how people were hearing them. I am not talking about the Sanskrit. Usually when you hear “Prabhupada said to rewrite the Fifth Canto”, you black out, thinking it is impossible. To do it, you have to think about how to present it in our way of understanding. I do not like the world “subtle” because it does not actually describe what we want to say.

Prabhupada I could talk to because he was more far out than all the rest of us together. His experience was so vast he could relate to everything. Once I sat next to Srila Prabhupada when he was singing a bhajana and I experienced it with all my five senses at once. He looked at me and smiled, appreciating my new experience. If you have an experience then you can describe it realistically not otherwise. We have problems if we limit ourselves to the physical. People talk about different energetic dimensions. Our advantage is that we can enter into energetic dimensions. The change of perception makes understanding possible.

When many people proposed cosmological models I recommended that we go with Carana Renu’s model showing the sun moving through the rasis because it was directly there in the Bhagavatam. Sadaputa has things not directly in the Bhagavatam itself, and Antardvipa had stuff from other Puranas. Danavira Swami’s spherical earth off the coast of Jambudvipa is also not directly there in the Bhagavatam.

We have a problem in explaining a direct meaning if we start with our experience of earth and relate it to Bhu-mandala because how do we see our earth in the Bhagavatam?

I include the material from bona fide Vaishnavas’ commentaries on the Srimad-Bhagavatam. It can fill in the gaps, but if it appears to disagree with Srila Prabhupada’s version, we go with Srila Prabhupada’s version.

Brahmapuri is 10 million yojanas, which is larger than the top of Mount Meru itself. How do we understand this?

Srila Prabhupada accepted the direct meaning. It is simple. The planets move east to west around Dhruva the pole star.

There do appear to be irreconcilable differences. Another point is that if you take Surya-siddhanta and Srimad-Bhagavatam material and weave it together, although the sources are direct, the result is a personal interpretation and therefore no longer direct.

It is a representation of the direct meaning. There is the example of the village on the Ganges. It is not literally on the river itself.

I feel it is impossible to say we have a direct meaning as there will always be a degree of interpretation in it. The ideas of who we are, where we are, and how to get out are also direct meanings. There can be other indirect meanings that do not detract from the direct meaning but enhance our greater appreciation of God’s creation.

We are trying to make the best presentation possible to the groups we hope to reach.

Sastra has volume while we just see in 2D. The acarya can see the extra dimensions. Srila Prabhupada gave the direct meaning which we should follow as far as possible.

If we see a sphere coming through a plane, we see different sized circles. Which is right? Unless we are previously given knowledge that it is a sphere, we cannot say.

We hope to create an experience for the public. I feel with the mandate comes the ability to manifest it.

If we are humble, cooperative, and connected, empowerment becomes possible. Through cooperation we can avoid synthesizing direct sources in a way that misinterprets them.

Brahma is instructed in yoga-nidra, but when he wakes up he does not recall it. Ultimately he does penance and he is inspired by Krishna, and he sees everything in his heart.

Radhika Ramana Prabhu, who is a great scholar, always makes the point that if the direct meaning does not make sense, then we have to go to indirect meanings. The Bhagavatam describes Bhu-mandala both as the equatorial plane and as the ecliptic plane, and that does not make sense.

There are many direct interpretations in the Bhagavatam. How do we determine which to choose?

The only way is purifying ourselves and working together.

We can dovetail peer review in Krishna consciousness.

Srila Prabhupada wanted us to show that the Bhagavatam is good science. Surya-siddhanta is a good tool for us because Srila Prabhupada suggested it.

All use of language is subjective to some degree. For example, whether a meaning can be classed as literal or not, depends upon the context and the culture of the users. One must also consider the multiple meanings of English words themselves. For example, to a geologist the word mountain means a ‘massive mound of rock’ but the inhabitants of an ancient valley community might immediately understand that the text is referring to a type of ‘huge boundary’.

The work of the BI is not to judge the chandelier model but suggest it may not be set in stone.

It is not Vaishnava to condemn science but only its neglect of the Supreme Lord.

Srila Prabhupada wanted us to bring God back into science.

We have an awful lot of work to do, and not enough for one conference or a series of conferences, but it will take generations to do it all.

Srila Prabhupada wanted BI devotees to clarify the presentation in the TOVP, and this has always been understood by the managers of the TOVP project. Originally it was all the BI devotees, but later Sadaputa Prabhu came forward and applied his talents to the cosmology. Then he was gone, and there was no other clear BI group focused on cosmology until this Gainesville group formed. Originally there was a single Mayapur TOVP group. Now Ambarisa is working on part, and Jayapataka Maharaja is working on another. It is important to understand that we are the current voice of this line of a tradition that has been going on for sometime, and it is a great responsibility. We take the knowledge we have received, present it according to our ability, and hand the ball to the next team. It is not a new project. We have a new audience. We want to be loyal to our tradition.

Before the TOVP during Srila Prabhupada’s time, there was an idea of presenting exhibits with scientific devotees’ input.

Our material needs should not over endeavored for, but for spiritual service, however, there is no limit to the endeavor.

Our ultimate goal is we have a Radha Madhava temple, and we want people to appreciate it.

I have stressed that the chandelier be modular and changeable.

One leading devotee mentioned that he had doubts about a mechanical model in light of advancing technology.

The Bhagavata Cosmology is describing a real structure. There are positions for people of different consciousness.

Formerly scientists did not understand there are living entities with bodies living 8,000 meters beneath the sea.

Why don’t we see Mount Meru? We do not have access to that location. It is not a question of a suitable telescope as it is in another dimension.

Bhugola is such we cannot see beyond it. We are earth bound. We cannot see beyond the sixteen elements.

Dealing with this issue will force us to understand deeper what we as conditioned jivas can perceive.

Just because you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist or that it is a different substance.

Srila Prabhupada used the analogy of a bull tied to a post to our being limited in what we can see.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said not to reject the Bhagavatam because it does not know astronomy.

I see our not seeing things as being like on a web site that a pay wall may block one from seeing different aspects of the web site.

We cannot really definitely say if that which is beyond the pay wall is of the same nature or a different nature as what we presently experience.

I think we have to explain the whole nature of maya, and why the living entities are conditioned differently.

One devotee explains that on the different levels of the universe there are different percentages of the eight elements in the bodies of the residents there.

We have to research our own metaphysics. Atmatattva tells a story of a person who went into meditation, and saw mountainous beings who said, “You are not supposed to be here.” Then he found his meditation broke and he could not get back to that place.

Most is beyond our conception though not all.

Sadaputa made the point that Lokaloka Mountain is said to be the limit of grahas (planets with astrological meaning) visible to the naked eye, and that is just beyond the orbit of Saturn. In this context, Lokaloka may not be a physical rocky mountain, but a mountain in the sense that it is a type of boundary in space.

Understanding the relationship of the Lord with the universe is the beginning of Krishna consciousness.

I think this verse sums it up: “My dear King, I have now described for you this planet earth, other planetary systems, and their lands [varsas], rivers and mountains. I have also described the sky, the oceans, the lower planetary systems, the directions, the hellish planetary systems and the stars. These constitute the virat-rupa, the gigantic material form of the Lord, on which all living entities repose. Thus I have explained the wonderful expanse of the external body of the Lord.” (SB 5.26.40) The message is to show where we are in the universe, so we understand we are part of something greater.

Sadaputa says in his purpose of the BI lecture, the first of the Origins series, that the purpose of the BI is to present aspects of science to attract the scientists and to give engagement to scientific minded devotees.

I see it is all about engaging people. Knowledge not static but dynamic.

I have a mandate. I have to do this very seriously. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura conceived of a theistic exhibition, and he was one of the greatest astronomers. It is the first time for something of this magnitude. It is the fulfillment of the mission. All relevant science for human progress is to be found in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The more we can show that, the more we can change the face of the earth. Srila Prabhupada prophesied this. He said it will achieve more than Columbus.

The Bhagavata Cosmology is an attack on the materialistic concept. It is a test for us to get past, a rite of passage, or a filter system. It appears in the middle of the Bhagavatam, and it prepares us to accept Krishna in the later cantos.

We should bear in mind that audiences in previous times would have been able to appreciate the underlying metaphysics and this would have enabled them to conceive of the Bhu-mandala description as the virat-rupa much more clearly perhaps than we do.

The Fifth Canto shows where we can go after this life, and gives us the option of stopping the repeated births. Because it is so far out, it has been difficult and somewhat impossible for some people to be Krishna conscious. Srila Prabhupada was aware of this and wanted us to make it more understandable and to seem more feasible.

It is meant to show the Lord is glorified all over the universe. I see this is along the lines of Brhad-bhagavatamrita.

The key is to build the faith of the viewers. If we are unable to do this it will be too easy for people to take it as mythological and reject it.

Just reading Srimad-Bhagavatam is an act of devotion and leads us to transcendence. We are churning this, and we do not know what will come out. Some poison, some nectar. Now that we have achieved humanity, we can inquire about the Absolute Truth. If through our models, we can inspire people to inquire about the Absolute Truth, that is our success. We do not need to give people answers but the means to find the answers themselves.

Personalism is one contribution we have, in relation to ourselves, the cosmos, and Krishna. This has to shake your soul. When you leave, you will become a new person, having changed for the better. And the time could not be better. Previously people did not consider animals had consciousness . . .

One anti-cult book said that the Hare Krishnas believe God lies on a bed of water and breathes out millions of universes. They thought it was evil, but I thought it was cool. Now scientists are talking about multiple universes. I see the Fifth Canto is the demigods for a moment exposing their world to us, and we are shocked by it, just as Yashoda was shocked to see the universe in Krishna’s mouth.

I think we should think about what we can do for the TOVP, not what the TOVP can do for us.

We have an entry level, three floors of exhibits, and a dome theater. Originally we will start with one floor of exhibits and the dome theater because we will not be able to get it all ready by the opening day.

I think the abbreviated version will deal with mostly the philosophical exhibits which the BI is not so essential for.

We have an initial outline for all the exhibits. The three floors deal with

1. consciousness and the soul

2. evolution

3. cosmology

I favor doing full development and producing virtual reality models of the exhibits. Among other things that will motivate people to contribute to it. This should go on intensively and continually.

The BI needs to be fairly assertive and practical in order to get its points and objectives across to the TOVP team.

I had low expectations and high hopes so no disappointments.

I think we should make a book for the BBT and put all we discussed in it for the benefit of the devotees.

Although you cannot point to a lot of practical things, I would say that we are building relationships that are very important for this project, and on the foundation of these relationships we will make progress toward the goals that Srila Prabhupada wanted.

I feel it was very important to discuss these important issues with people who have actually considered them.

This is not something we are doing which is necessary to attain love of God. It is something for us who have an interest in doing it.

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When I try to sell Sri Isopanisad, I show people verses one and two. I say the book explains how we can have peace in this world. Sometimes the people buy it. Unfortunate people who are not satisfied with their God-given quota cause trouble to themselves and others by stealing as indicated here, but God conscious people, satisfied with what God as given, have time to work for the benefit of others. If everyone in human society took these verses seriously, we would live in a very peaceful world.

isavasyam idam sarvam

yat kiñca jagatyam jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjitha

ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam

kurvann eveha karmani

jijivisec chatam samah

evam tvayi nanyatheto ’sti

na karma lipyate nare

“Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong. One may aspire to live for hundreds of years if he continuously goes on working in that way, for that sort of work will not bind him to the law of karma. There is no alternative to this way for man.” (Sri Isopanisad, Texts 1 and 2)